Unit 4 post

The panels I chose depicts the march for “Operation Open City” that calls for fair employment. The reason I chose this panel is because it offers a different perspective of the story. Instead of the opposition between the black and white, this time there is conflict within the white population. If the white and black communities were incommensurable in the beginning, if the situation was truly of “ballot or bullet,” one or the other, the sense of understanding that is achieving here through the peaceful marches are revolutionary.


The frames in which a white supporter got sprayed with black paint particularly caught my eyes. The body, or the skin color marks a sign of difference, or epidermalization of inferiority. This is a process of alienation and dehumanization, because such harassment takes away the body of the men and only left the skin behind. It was also worth pondering how on this page, only the last two panels have black background that matches the color of the spray. The contrast between the dark skin and background and the color of the eyes gives me a sense of anger, but also firmness, which matches the words in the bottom “I deeply believe that our discipline paved the road to our success,” as if the belief is so deep and firm that it is not necessary to put it under the spotlight. The man’s reply is also a seemingly subtle, “thank you.” For me, it is precisely this subtle reply that is so strong a silent and peaceful protest that the thugs would have nothing to reply, and that is power. Instead of “dramatizing the situation” like the non-violent protest lead by Gandhi, I felt like this reply takes away the drama, but put forward the toughness, tenacity and power that forces the whites to stop their thoughtlessness.

Jack Lyons Unit 4 Post 2

The beauty of this illustration is in how it portrays the desolation and fear accompanied with this scene without embellishing any elements or making a caricature of any particular figure. It manages to heighten the already enormous fear of going to the penitentiary without providing any dialogue or any disturbing depictions. It shows the seeming impunity that the government can operate with; doing the right thing in the face of this authority will not guarantee any mercy: they OWN you. This is where the somewhat hidden rhetorical devices begin to shine. Written on the back of the bus carrying the prisoners reads “Property of the State of Mississippi” as if the prisoners are owned. They are no longer individuals. In a way, this can be seen as a connection to the enslavement of African-Americans. This allows the reader to draw the connection of slavery a hundred and fifty years ago, to the mass incarceration and corrupt prison system in the US today. Some would even argue that it is a direct continuation of the system of chattel slavery in the US. Also, the fact that there is an enormous and completely lifeless expanse past the gates conjures up a vision of Hell. There is no life here, only a wicked authority that acts with unspeakable acts of cruelty: “Parchman was the stuff of legends — dark legends”. Some ducks in a pond can be seen in the bottom right corner, free to do as they please just outside the penitentiary, and there are even small human figures, presumably guards, smoking cigarettes carrying their guns relaxed and without a care in the world. Then, just past the barbwire and chainlink fence, there is a guard tower with rifles on the lookout. Two pages later one of the guards tells them, “ain’t no newspapermen out here”. This is particularly poignant because it illustrates how immune this authority is. No one can recount the suffering, no one can hold them accountable, and it is desolate and lifeless in its enormity. The penitentiary is even nicknamed “Parchman Farm”. This nickname is perhaps an illusion to a plantation. It is where they will not only beat and torture the prisoners, but they will also work for the state, hence it is a “Farm”. This reinforces the earlier theme of these prisoners being “Property of the State of Mississippi”, and therefore their labor is as well.

Unit 4 Assignment 2–Natalie Zhu (4th Dec)

            This is the part that the freedom riders were arrested on their way from Nashville to Birmingham. They were on a bus, when a police officer suddenly stopped their bus, and asked all other passengers to get off, or they were “free to leave” except the freedom riders. The freedom riders were forced to wait in the bus and in the dark for more than three hours, until some police officers showed up and put them into jail. It turned out that a senator did this to them because it was “for their own protection.” In the jail, they were told to stay there until morning leave Birmingham tomorrow as soon as possible, because Birmingham was not safe.

            The tricky part of this is the excuse the senator gave them to justify what he did. He stopped the freedom riders from advocating for equal right, and he claimed that he did that because he wanted to protect them, and Birmingham was not the place they belong to. What appeals most to me is that the fake excuse he used to cover his real intention, and the way they treated the freedom riders. They were left alone in the dark for more than three hours until someone came to explain the situation. Nobody should be treated this way, and I believe no white men would be treated that way back then. The senator left the freedom riders waiting for hours, arrested them, put them in jail, and said all of these were for their own protection—that was unbearable. And I can’t stop thinking that how many other hypocrites would be there like the senator, who said they would support and help the freedom riders, but in the end the only thing they did was stopping them from what they should do.

Rachel Gronberg Unit 4 Post 2: March Book 2

The scene where the children of Birmingham marched in the park and got the fire hoses and dogs on them stood out to me. I hadn’t before given much thought to the role children had in these dangerous protests as well. For starters, I was surprised at how quickly the police arrested them, and how hostile the reaction from Bull Connor turned. It’s heartbreaking.

At the same time, this scene showed a nuanced moment of impact from the children on the police. On pg. 134, we see one white officer turn to another and say apprehensively, “Hey, FRED… uh… how many more HAVE you got?” while holding his hat and looking distraught. Despite the horrific display of violence against those children in Birmingham, their presence not only was an amazing image for the movement, but effectively disrupted the oppression of the police, if only in their brief apprehensiveness.

I chose this image on pg. 135 in particular because the image is powerful– and one of familiarity. In the background, we can see an officer directing kids to march into the back of the police truck, to their arrests– and the kids are going, just like following the lien through the hallway at school. In the foreground, we see the sweetest girl, with a braid, Mary Janes, the cute young-kid mumble, and a protest sign. It reads, “Can a man love God and hate his brother?” This is perfectly related to what Prof. Wills is explaining in class– how Christianity was used both as a means to perpetuate and dismantle racism.

This image also displays our motif of the absurdity of these oppressive, racist, actions. If the image were blatant enough in showing the ridiculousness of an officer asking why the young girl is protesting, the page says it right at the bottom: it was an embarrassment to the city.

I like this image most in the book because it seems to be a familiar one, one that I’ve seen many times in the civil rights movement. Most notably in my mind, the painting “The Problem We All Live With,” picturing Ruby Bridges being escorted to school. Though it’s not exactly the same, for some reason the image in the book immediately made me want to reference it. Maybe they strike me as similar because the young girls hold themselves with such resolve and power, while at the same time appearing to be innocent and in a sense powerless with the guards next to them.

Image result for ruby bridges norman rockwell

Because this image takes up an entire page, it is certainly meant to stand out to the reader. It is curious to me that the policeman is on his knees to be the same level as the young girl. Is he there to get onto her level in some form of twisted sympathy? Or does him being eye-to-eye with her assert his dominance better than if he towered above her?

Unit 4: Assignment 2 by Gwenyth Van Doren

The excerpt I have chosen for close study are pages 80 and 81 in March 2. The pages depict Aretha Franklin singing “My Country ‘Tis of Thee” at President Obama’s first inauguration. The location and date of the picture are provided in text in the upper left hand corner of the page. I assumed it was President Obama’s first inauguration because that has been the backdrop of John Lewis’ experience of the Freedom Rides and the March on Washington throughout the book. However, I looked up the woman and the lyrics to find out who she was and what patriotic song she was singing. 

The song lyrics are spread out in speech bubbles that span both pages and are written in large capital letters and denoted with a music note. However, the song lyrics start on the previous page and finish on the next page. Also, there are 5 small panels that depict scenes from when the Freedom Riders were attacked by a racist mob outside of the Montgomery Greyhound Bus Station on May 20, 1961. The panels include images of bloodied (and probably dead) Freedom Riders, a bloodied hand from an attacker, two attackers (one with a Confederate flag) smiling at each other, the hand on the shoulder of a boy who participated in the attack, and an officer casually lighting a cigarette. 

The juxtaposition of Aretha Franklin and the lyrics she is singing with the scenes from the attack are jarring. It is a reminder to the reader of what has happened in order for change, like the first black US president, to occur. However, despite Obama’s election, people still debate on how much change there actually has been. Even though the artist draws Aretha as singing these lyrics of freedom and liberty with conviction, it is hard to think they are true when the scenes accompanying it could easily be scenes of police brutality today. I mean, one of the scenes is an officer casually smoking a cigarette despite the bloodshed that occurred and bloodshed he could have easily participated in. While these pages can invoke a sense of optimism because it appears that all that bloodshed meant something, it calls into question if those lyrics are even applicable to black people today. These pages made me as the reader feel optimistic and critical at the same time. I think it is important to recognize accomplishments when they happen, but also to recognize that more work needs to be done still.

Unit Four Assignment Two

By: Caison Gray

Pages 134 and 135 of March Book Two by: John Lewis, Andrew Aydin, and Nate Powell

On pages 134 and 135 of the book, the young African American children of Birmingham Alabama are participating in the march of their lives. These children are marching for their equal rights, even though their parents had been just arrested for the same reason. They have the goal of finishing the march that their parents started. 

These two pages helped me better understand the tension that existed between the black and white community at the time of the march, no matter the age of the participants. During the Civil Rights Movement, thousands of minors were arrested for vocalizing their idea of equality. Humanity allowed for the lines to become so blurred over the color of an individual’s skin color, that children suffered just as much as adults. When learning about the Civil Rights Movement, we predominately discuss the adult figures that made an impact. However, these two pages, and the majority of the book and other sources we have discussed, show me the amount of “unnoticed” individual’s that had an impact. Children had a huge impact on the Civil Rights Movement, yet they are rarely discussed when learning about this societal milestone. 

The size of the illustration on page 135 also left me with quite an impression. As a reader, having the illustration take up the entire page drew me in and forced me to look at the details in front of me. I felt a stillness within the faced-paced writing of the book, slowing me down and fully absorbing the impact the illustration had. I saw a young black girl standing her ground in front of an adult white police officer. The girl is standing straight up, with her shoulders back, and head held high. The white police officer, however, is lowered onto his knee in order to be at the eye-level of the girl. Then a simple, yet powerful dialogue is exchanged between the young black girl and the adult white officer. The dialogue was a powerful display of the powerful involvement of children in the Birmingham March and the injustice of the Alabama police department.

The fact that a young black girl had the strength to face her fear and stand up to an adult white police officer proves the fact that there was hope during the Civil Rights Movement. Nothing was going to stop the African American community from achieving and fighting for the rights they deserved. 

Unit 4 Post 2: Aimee Duran

March Book 2, Page 170

On page 170, the authors of March 2 depict the march that they took to Washington DC. They chose to break down the speech into multiple speech bubbles to highlight the importance of every part that he mentioned in his speech. Thousands of people joined them that day to fight for segregation in the South. This image illustrates John Lewis delivering his speech and the thousands of people listening to every word that he says. There are both black people and white people attending the march. John Lewis is talking about how patient colored people have been in obtaining their rights and freedom. 

Ever since Africans were brought to the Americas, the struggle to be seen as human and treated human like white people has existed. John Lewis makes this emphasis when he puts in more emotion to the words such as “Freedom” and “Revolution.” People of color have been patient enough waiting for the day that they will truly acquire freedom. This panel stuck to me because although there is no division of where white people and colored people are allowed in, in today’s society, there are still racial issues that have maintained throughout history. Colored people have not acquired total freedom in a country that promises freedom to all. There are issues in our society that are continuous, such as police brutality and mass incarceration being some of the bigger issues. Despite the many protests and marches, there still exists the lack of equality among the nation and at times it seems impossible to reach equality for all. 

This book puts a huge emphasis on the patient that was given to the government to make changes and end segregation. The speeches that were made throughout the novel do not cover everything that they have faced, but they do show the progress that they made when they all came together.

Elizabeth Vair Unit 4 March 2 post

The last two panels depicting Eugene Connor uses the contrast between a sketch-like portrait and harsh text to drive emotion – possibly anger or disbelief- into the audience. This panel is placed after the attack on the freedom riders in Birmingham, and the interview atmosphere depicted makes the reader feel as though they are watching the newsreel after the events. The artist covers Connor’s eyes with his glasses, even though they are meant to be seen through and not sunglasses. A person’s eyes are often linked to their emotions, and it is said the eyes are the window to the soul. Therefore, blocking the eyes subconsciously causes the audience to associate this depiction of Connor as a person who does not have emotion, or is not impacted by the disastrous event. In the last panel, the bolded text in a black box covering the eyes is almost like a censorship bar. The text becomes unavoidable, it is impossible to look at Connor’s face – even close up – without seeing the harsh reality of his involvement in the casualties. 

This pictorial depiction creates a heightened understanding of the event as it is impossible to see it from another lens. The person who could possibly tell another story is blocked by the harsh and unforgiving truth. Showing Connor talking side by side with an image of a man beating a black man shows his association, even more so than would have been seen at the time. In the original interview, the camera would only focus on Connor, but by showing the atrocities next to him in this depiction, it becomes part of his identity. This personally disturbed me as I was bothered by the calmness with which Connor was depicted, even with the harsh truth stamped across his eyes and the bloody scene drawn next to him. The calmness seemed unnatural and offensive, explicitly showing that he was not bothered by the events, but rather was hiding his joy in them being completed.


Unit 4 March Post — Louis Onoratini

Throughout most of the book, the pages and panels in general have very dark undertones. The background is usually dark or darkened by some elongated speech bubbles. However, on these two pages we see light, we see space, we see hope. This march on Washington represents the height of the civil rights movement. After this demonstration, everything picked up speed and civil rights came to the forefront of the American psyche. So, having these pages so void of words but full of imagery and action makes it all the more powerful. Furthermore, I was not aware that John Lewis, Martin Luther King and other leaders did not end up leading the march that day. It makes these panels even more crucial to the whole event, as America really left without them. As John Lewis said, “There goes America.” This shows that he and his colleagues gave Americans the nudge they needed in order to fight for civil rights.  These panels heightened the already legendary march on Washington. 

As previously mentioned, most of the book depicts the darkest times in modern American history. Most times everything is bunched together in one panel, making them dense and almost impossible to understand. On the other hand, when we get to these panels, we are able to breathe. We start to see the light at the end of the tunnel. No longer does violence surround us but rather benevolence starts to encircle us. The huge crowd of people marching together with one common goal, uninterrupted by racism or violence, sends a powerful image of what America hopes to be and should be. I chose these panels because they show the power of nonviolent protests. If members of the movement had decided to fight back at any point, this march and change would never have been possible. Even though other more powerful panels are present throughout the book, this one resonated with me the most because it showed the beauty of unity. The beauty that can only be found in humanity. 

Tomás Quintero: Unit 4 Assignment 2

The use of an image for the purpose of conveying a message holds properties capable of creating a powerful impact without needing much else of an explanation. Thinking about images, and how they are used to send messages with impact, I am reminded of Sontag in Regarding the Pain of Others. Sontag writes about how photographs, primarily war photography, are an effective way to communicate emotion and can be framed to produce a powerful narrative.


Although panels in graphic novel and war photographs have their differences, the same concept that Sontag writes about can also apply to the pictorial depictions illustrated in Book Two of March. Sontag explains that war is brutal and impersonal, it is a faceless mass of indiscriminate killing. Anyone, regardless of their loyalties or associations, can be killed. Photography is capable of putting a face to something. An image can capture the moment and put a face to war, making war seem more human and personal. When someone puts a face to war with an image, war is no longer an abstract form of violence, killing and suffering; but rather, one can see it tangibly as people suffering and feeling emotions, just like any of us. With an image, we no longer simply see the numbers of casualties or how many are displaced; instead, we see the faces of the killers and the killed. We see people.


Looking at the images, the ones that I put under close study are the panels that show Parchman Farm State Penitentiary between pages 99-108 in March. For me, as I looked at these images I felt both a sense of familiarity and of discovery.


During my senior project last spring, I lived in Mississippi for two months volunteering at the Rosedale Freedom Project. My host mother during my stay was Ms. Chapman, a prison guard at Parchman Farm. She would tell me stories of what guards would do to incarcerated individuals, as well as explained what the conditions were like. I even had the opportunity to visit the prison one day and see the front gate and the main compound in the distance, which explains the sense of familiarity. It was powerful that March gave a perspective from within the prison, a place that is mysterious, with plenty of unknowns––especially in the United States. The way Nate Powell represented the prison as a very dark place added created a sense of evil in the prison, as if there is a sense of hopelessness created from years of people who were detained within its walls. In doing so, I am drawn to the details in the image, I look for what the artist chooses to show in the darkness.


In terms of typography, we can see how the words appear to be are bold, harsh, and disorganized. In terms of the use of language, the guard’s language comes off as aggressive, short, and choppy; whereas the language of the incarcerated freedom riders, it comes off as strong, indifferent, and persistent. The combination of language and art made me feel like I was discovering something, as if I was present in this moment, watching all of these interactions go down between the incarcerated individuals and the guards.

From what we see in these panels, both in the use of visualization and in language, we see the harsh prison environment the writers intended to create. In doing so, they heighten the idea of the incarcerated freedom riders by showing their resilience through the abuse from the prison guards––a powerful scene in this graphic novel.

Unit 4 Post on March Book Two-River Meng

                                                Page 147, March Book Two.

This page of pictorial depiction accurately depicts the meeting that President Kennedy and his cabinet had with the leaders of the civil rights movement to discuss the March in Washington. The artists of the graphic novel decide to add in plenty of dark color by drawing shades on characters’ faces. The frequent utilization of dark color in most of the panels on this page, along with the dark background on the page before which introduced A. Phillip Randolph, suggests the intensity of the meeting. The very first panel, which occupies almost half the space on the page, depicts an overall settings of the meeting. It shows a dozen or so men sitting around a table, all dressed in jacket and tie. President Kennedy is shown sitting amongst his staffs and advisors on the right side of the able. On the left side of the table, across from President Kennedy, sit the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement. This specific sitting arrangement in panel one suggests the division of members of the meeting and the subtle attitude President Kennedy had towards the Civil Rights Movement. Moreover, the facial expression of the characters indicates the meeting was not going smoothly. This meeting was essentially a negotiation between the United States government and the leaders of the Civil Rights Movement. However, looking at the face of every one of the character, one can easily tell that nobody in that room is satisfied with the current situation and yet no one is willing to compromise. The second panel is a solo portrait of President Kennedy. With his eyebrows clenched together and mouth wide open, most likely yelling, this panel depicts President Kennedy as a intimidating negotiator who was using the passing of the Civil Rights Bill as a leverage to threaten the black leaders to give up the march.

Besides visual element, the arrangement of the text on page 147 also help to illustrate the intensity in the meeting room. The artists bold several words throughout the page to emphasize the tone of the speaker. For example, in panel one, Randolph says to President Kennedy that “THE BLACK MASSES ARE RESTLESS, MR. PRESIDENT. WE ARE GOING TO MARCH ON WASHINGTON.” Here, by bolding the words “restless” and “going”, the artists are able to emphasize the extreme anger shared by African Americans and their determination to march on Washington to demonstrate their aim. 

Basil Wiering Unit 4 Assignment 2

I chose the two-page spread on pages 80-81. It is one of three such spreads where one panel or scene covers the spread from edge to edge, the other two being the first attack on the Freedom Riders on pages 44-45 and Martin Luther King Jr’s I Have a Dream speech on pages 172-173. The scene on pages 80-81 is one of several depicting the inauguration and presidency of Barack Obama. Unlike the aforementioned spreads, this one contains smaller frames scattered around. While the main event being depicted is Aretha Franklin’s performance at the inauguration, the scattered frames contrast it by showing the aftermath of the beating endured by the Freedom Riders in Montgomery. The dominating image is an expression of freedom and progress, with the words of My Country Tis of Thee floating across the pages. The three main components of the spread are interwoven: the image of Aretha Franklin and the US capital and crowd behind her, the lyrics of the song, and the small images from Montgomery. The images are vignettes of a struggle for freedom, including beaten bodies, passive policemen, and grinning racists. This provides the context for understanding why the inauguration of Obama felt so inspiring and significant, set against a history of pain and perseverance. This feeling of inspiration is captured in Franklin’s posture and expression, as well as the song lyrics. The text boxes for the lyrics are some of the largest in the book and begin on page 79 and continue into page 82, denoting the continuation of the struggle for freedom. The final words of the song shown on page 82 are clouded by the smoke of a molotov cocktail thrown at a church, which brings us back to the harsh reality of Montgomery in 1961, the same place the floating lyrics began. The imagery on page 82 is an empty blackness aside from a hand throwing the homemade explosive and the words, “Let freedom ring!”, pitting the two ideologies against each other, highlighting the methods of each and contrasting the time periods in which they occurred.

Unit 4 Assignment 2- Erica Harris

Pages 172-173 are from Dr. Martin Luther King Jr’s “I Have a Dream” speech during the March on Washington. The speech was the last one, and it occurred after John Lewis’ in the comic. The image is the only one in the section that spans over two pages, and certain words are in bold and underlined. 

Martin Luther King Jr. is surrounded by what seems like a halo of light. This and the top-left hand corner are the only places in the image that are light. This speech is the only one highlighted like this, and the words that are underlined create a sense of hope for the future. The comic focused on nonviolence even in the face of violence, and this speech shows how nonviolence and words can be powerful too. The words were “like arrows” creating a “climatic refrain the world would never forget” (172). These lines describe the speech perfectly because they touched many people even now. The words on the second page are all in bold highlighting the main points of the speech of love and a better country. 

I chose this image because it stood out when I was reading this section. Love and dream are highlighted adding to the message of nonviolence. It describes how religion and hope for the future were the main bases for the nonviolence movement. Throughout the comic, there is so much violence they face. Even with all the violence, they stand firm in their belief of nonviolence. This page not only conveys hope, but it shows how many people it touched and how impactful the speech was. It is not always possible to stay nonviolent, and sometimes it may not be the best way as a response. However, they stood firm in their belief that love and a dream may help create a better and more equal America even when it may not happen. 

Unit 4: Assignment 1 by Gwenyth Van Doren

Mary Church Terrell, What It Means to be Colored in the Capital of the United States

  • Terrel’s religious affiliation is Christian.
    • She talks about her experiences of racial discrimination and segretation in church despite having the right as a human being to the “sanctuary of God.”
  • The violence Terrell describes is not physical, but more of a mental violence as black people are deprived of jobs and the experience of life simply due to their race. 
  • The common roots for the violence Terrell describes is race. 
  • Terrell describes a lot of the experiences of black women and how that despite their qualifications for a position or job they are denied it because of their race. 
    • I think Terrell uses “white sisters” ironically on page 205 because despite being the same gender, white women do not share and will never share the same experiences as black women. 
  • Terell does not propose any responses or solutions to anti-black violence but she does highlight it and its effect on black youth growing up.

Ida B. Wells, “Lynch Law in America”

  • Wells religious affiliation might be Christian because she states that Americans “knew nothing about Christianity….” 
  • The violence Wells describes is America’s national crime, lynching. She also describes that violent acts of mutilation that usually accompanies the lynching of black people.
  • Wells refers to the common roots of lynching as the “unwritten laws”, which can only refer to racism in all its forms.
  • Wells addresses white women’s role in the lynching of black men by just (falsely) accusing them of insult or assault.However, nothing happens when black women are insulted and/or assaulted by black men. 
  • Wells’ proposed response/solution to anti-black violence is for Americans to see the nation’s evils and “take the necessary steps to remedy it.” 

Basil Wiering Unit 4 Assignment 1

Ida B. Wells and Mary Church Terrell were both influential thinkers, writers, and leaders of the civil rights movement. While they have much in common, there are a few notable differences, particularly in their backgrounds. MCT’s family was part of the elite black class of Memphis; Ida B. Wells was born into slavery before eventually being freed by the Emancipation Proclamation. Both lived much of their early life in Memphis, though Wells moved following the mobbed destruction of her newspaper offices. Wells co-owned the local newspaper, focusing on racial inequality in her writings, which were nationally renowned. While Terrell was not officially a writer by trade, she wrote throughout her life, culminating in an autobiography. Terrell was one of the first African-American women to attend college and continued working in higher education, and education generally, for much of her life. She was a member on a number of boards, and founded several other organizations including the National Association of Colored Women and the National Association of College Women. Both women were religiously affiliated–Wells operated her newspaper out of a Baptist church, and Terrell’s work in education was often affiliated with the Methodist church. Both of the assigned readings, excerpts of Wells’ Southern Horrors and Terrell’s speech, “What It Means to be Colored in the Capital of the United States”, confront the plague of racial discrimination and prosecution. Terrell explains how the color of her skin affects her experience in DC, highlighting a uniform and institutional manifestation of racism, citing particular instances in business, schools, and public services. Wells focuses on the “unwritten law” of lynching, which is malicious and lawless. Both writings underscore the wide social acceptance of both the calculated coldness of institutions and the reckless hatred of the mobs, and call for society to remedy this position. The majority white United States was not hesitant to excuse the racist actions in either context–the discrimination found in stores was seen as the necessary reality, and lynching was argued as a defense of white women. This functions under the assumption that black men and communities are dangerous, unpredictable, and lawless, an assumption that in turn fuels its own dangerous and lawless behavior at the expense of thousands of lives.